On Tuesday, September 27, Bernalillo County Commissioner Michael Wiener told the ACLU to “go to hell.”
No joke. You can watch the video clip for yourself:
I spoke on behalf of the ACLU at the commission meeting on Tuesday in support of a resolution that would prohibit county ceremonies from being held in places of worship. I told the commission that when a government agency holds official ceremonies in places of worship, it sends a message to the community that a certain religious group or set of beliefs is preferred—and that’s just not right.
Unfortunately, I was outnumbered 30 to 1 at the meeting and things got a little ugly. Then Wiener told us to go to hell. Then the commission voted down the resolution 3-2. It was kind of a rough day.
But that’s what the ACLU does, we take principled stands—often in the face of fierce opposition—to insure that our freedoms are not trampled by the tyranny of the majority. Today, I’d like to invite you to stand with the ACLU of New Mexico by letting your commissioners (especially Wiener!) know that the separation of church and state matters to you.
This resolution didn’t come out of the blue. Earlier this month Bernalillo County Sheriff Dan Houston chose his own church as the venue for the graduation ceremony for new deputies. Some of the new deputies were upset that, on their special day, they would be forced to attend a ceremony in a place of worship when plenty of secular, county-owned venues were available.
We want our supporters to speak up on this issue because it is important to show that what happened at that commission meeting was unacceptable. The majority of Americans value the separation of church and state because they know that both government and religion are at their best when they are not entangled with one another.
Sincerely,
Peter Simonson
Executive Director
Lannan Foundation
This just shows how unintelligent you are.
The phrase “wall of separation between the church and the state” was originally coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802. His purpose in this letter was to assuage the fears of the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, and so he told them that this wall had been erected to protect them. ***The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church’s business, not to keep the church out of the state’s business. ***
seperation of church and state does not mean what you think it means .It means that the government should stay out of the affairs of the church., and can not dictate what the church can say or do.
Steven,
You might be surprised to know that the ACLU agrees with you.
I did indeed wrote to Commissioner Wiener…thanking him for his stand and that of the other two commissioners who voted against this pointless and counterproductive ban.
This county and this entire state is generally strapped for funds, and the provision of a huge, free venue with huge, free parking should not be scoffed at. The church doesn’t display statues, or even a cross, and would be completely indistinguishable from any other auditorium.
Ironically, if the graduation had been held at a mosque, I would bet the ACLU would be in the forefront demanding tolerance and inclusiveness.
I will stand and support Commissioner Wiener 100% in this matter. I am glad to see my representative stand for for what I as an “American” believe in. Thank you Commissioner Wiener.
But Peter and Laura, If you do not believe in Hell, why would it matter to you if Commissioner Wiener made the following statement (heard in the KOAT-TV You Tube clip removed from this page of your site per KOAT request)?
“We heard recently that Maxine Waters said the Tea Party can go to Hell. There’s somebody else that can go to Hell. I think you know who that is. That’s the ACLU.”
He did not tell me or anyone reading this page to go to Hell as your headline declares. Neither did he say “ACLU go to hell (sic)” as the banner below your headline states.
So having clarified that, since you are atheists, why does it matter that the Commissioner suggested that you as the ACLU can go to Hell? If you do not believe in Hell, it is the same as
saying “go brush your teeth.” It has no bite when you don’t believe it has an element of harm.
The personal religious beliefs of ACLU members don’t really factor in to this. (It is a mistake to assume that ACLU members are atheists, by the way. We’re just as religiously diverse as the rest of the country.) Regardless of whether or not one believes in the existence of hell, I think that we can all agree that it’s not very polite to tell someone–or a group of someones–to “go to hell.” (Our paraphrase)
But of course that’s not the ACLU’s biggest problem with this situation. We believe in free speech and Commissioner Wiener has every right to be as rude to us as he pleases. What we do strongly object to is the idea that a place of worship is an appropriate venue to conduct official state business. Choosing a specific church to hold a government ceremony in is inherently showing preferential treatment to one religion over all the others. Why not hold it at a Catholic church? Why not another “megachurch” across town? Why not a synagogue? Why not a mosque? Mormon temple?
Most importantly, why not hold the ceremony a government-owned building that was created for the very purpose of accommodating these types of official events?
The government should not be in the business of deciding which religious beliefs have the most legitimacy or merit, and should never give even the appearance of favoring one religious group over another. This basic idea is so important that we enshrined it in the First Amendment to our Constitution. And that’s what Commissioner Wiener was really saying could go to hell.